Stanley Wilson - Interview by Casey B. Coplen

INTERVIEW OF STANLEY WILSON

By Casey B. Coplen

May 14, 2002

Introduction: "Doing this interview showed me that this world has gone through a lot of things. Not only the world, but also every person that has fought in a war. I respect every person that has gone to war and faced the enemy. They are very heroic and I respect them very much. Mr. Wilson showed me that even though he had another life with a family and a home, that he was willing to go out to battle, whether it was on land or on ship, and fight for our country's freedom. Every person in this great nation should go up to a veteran and shake his/her hand, and say thank you for making this place the United States of America what it is today. I think that with the terrorist attacks on the US has made us stronger and less likely to have it happen again. I just want to give a special thanks to Mr. Wilson for talking to me about his life and all of the strife he's had, and still has to go through. Thank you very much. And I love you, Stanley."

STANLEY WILSON: I was born in Wister, Oklahoma, area on 12 June 1917 to John Martin and Nancy (Upton) Wilson. And we lived in that area until 1922, and we then moved to Stapp, Oklahoma south of Heavener about 30 miles. I went to school at Stapp Consolidated until about 1929, after '29 we moved to Dosier, Texas.

My dad had got laid off. The depression had hit and we went out there and worked on the farm, my dad did. For about two years and we picked cotton and cut head feed and took care of cattle on the big ranch out there at the Coleman Ranch in Dosier, Texas.

And we moved back here about three miles east at EC, Earl Jones was my teacher over there and we had a little baseball team. We played Tucker Knob, San Bois, and all these liberty hills, all these small schools around here. We would have little baseball games with them. We didn't have a basketball team at that time that went district wide. I started Kinta High School and I went my Freshman, Sophomore, and Junior year at Kinta, and due to health problems with my mother, I had to quit school.

Me and my wife married in 1937 and I went to work for her daddy in the timber. We worked at a sawmill and cut logs and worked around the mill and hauled lumber for about 2 ½ years and then I went to work for Oklahoma Natural Gas Company. We laid this line from a mile east of Kinta to Whitefield, and a tie-in over there where the twenty inch pipe for Oklahoma Natural.

And about the time that job finished, I got to go to work for Oklahoma Pipe Line Company a mile west of Kinta. And we maintained pipeline from Dequeen, Arkansas to Pryor, Oklahoma, and that was in December of 1940, I guess.

In 1943 I went into the navy, no 1944, and I went to San Diego and did basic training there. I went from basic training to San Pedro Island and taking gunnery, diesel mechanic, and refrigeration in a school and then come back and train men at San Diego, there for a while trained a few companies of men. Then I turned in a request chip every day with my reports. I wanted sea duty, I didn't come to this place to stay on land.

They sent me to Washington State, Seattle. I went aboard the USS Shenandoah there at Tacoma. We went from there to the south Pacific and I made what they call the shake down cruise, checking for problems that might occur on a new ship. We went to Honolulu and took some torpedo heads and unloaded over there.

We hit a pretty bad storm and had to come back into Bremerton Washington Shipyard to dry dock and they done some work on the hull of the USS Shenandoah, and went back out to sea and went down the south Pacific and stayed down around the coral sea for a while and had a lot of food on the Shenandoah, more especially meat. There was a leper island about thirty miles west of Panama City and we unloaded a lot of meat supplies. We unloaded what certain supplies we had there to Leper Island and went on to the Panama Canal.

And the Shenandoah was 490 feet and 86 feet wide. We had to have tug boats to tow us through the canal. The ship was so wide that we didn't have any variation. We needed to be sure that we didn't scrub the hull against the side of the canal because the canal was just a little bit wider than we were and we laid up in a open freshwater lake between Mowboah and Cologne, and stayed there a few days, then went on down and hit Mowboah, and went into the Atlantic and come back up by Cuba in the Caribbean Sea. And back up to Charleston, South Carolina, and from there we went up to a Caskell, Maine and unloaded a lot of ammunition. And after unloading the ammunition at Caskell Bay, we headed back to St. John's River there at Jacksonville, Florida, and pulled in there.

The most things we had to watch was submarines in the Atlantic because there were a lot of German subs that was shooting torpedoes at ships. But when we were in the Pacific, there were suicide planes was the problem, and during general quarters, when the ships was under siege from the enemy. I was in the 20-millimeter gun court on the port-side of the Shenandoah.

After we made our tour in the Atlantic, and come back to Jacksonville, Florida, I liked a little time getting out of the Navy, so I would go inland to a camp that was holding German prisoners and did daily guard duty, about 12 hours a day for six weeks, before I was able to be discharged. And then received my discharge in Norman, Oklahoma, we came by bus from Jacksonville, Florida to Norman, Oklahoma, and I was discharged there.

CASEY COPLEN: And what year was that?

STANLEY WILSON: It was 1945, the third month, and 11th day. 1946.

CASEY COPLEN: And while you were there did you have children at this time?

STANLEY WILSON: We had one daughter, Norma Sue, 7 years old.

CASEY COPLEN: Whenever you got back?

STANLEY WILSON: Yes, well, she was in school when I got back, and I went back to work. The company allowed me service time for what time I was in the service, and I worked for Interstate Oil Pipeline. OPL had sold out to Interstate Pipeline during that time. They took OPL employees, nearly all, and worked for them until 1956 and then City Service bought out Interstate Pipeline and I stayed with the Oklahoma Department of Interstate in Maysville until 1966.

From there we went to Odessa, Texas and went to work for a natural gas liquid plant, extracting hydrocarbon, which we made (into) finished products: butane, propane, ethane, and hyson, and hyson butane, and hyson propane, for the hydrocarbon (plant), and stayed there about two years. And then (we) moved to Blackwell, Oklahoma and went to Ambrose Plant. As a plant engineer, they called us, and made 8 finished products from hydrocarbons and worked in that plant until 1980, which gave me 40 years service with that company before I retired.

I retired in June of 1980, and I had this house built in Kinta as a place to retire. I came back here and have been retired 22 years which I am very thankful for. We belong to this Kinta Baptist in about 1943 through this time, and I'm very thankful and this church has been so much. And very grateful to come back to where I lived when I was a boy.

When I was training men in San Diego they had us tell the recruits that a smart man would never look back, that you always look forward and went forward. But I didn't believe what the commander would tell us, because I had Kinta in the back of my mind always.

CASEY COPLEN: So did you know they were going to come back here and move?

STANLEY WILSON: I had it in my mind. I didn’t know I could, I worked to that point, 1957.

CASEY COPLEN: So how long have you two been married?

STANLEY WILSON: We married in 1937, September 8, have been married 64 years.

CASEY COPLEN: And do you just have one daughter?

STANLEY WILSON: No, I have a daughter 62, one 52, and a boy that's 47. John Charles (the) youngest; Norma Sue, Mary Lynn, and John Charles were our children. Norma Sue born here before we moved around, and Mary Lynn was born in Smithville, in McCurtain County.

During the time I was in the navy I learned the Morse code, whenever I came back they sent me on a telegrapher's job, relaying stock, which was Cruet Oil. On its way from Louisiana to Illinois. We had some storage tanks down there, they pumped from the south to us, and we pumped it to Smithville. We pumped it to Council Hill Station north of here to Glenpool, up by Tulsa. Then to Wood River, Illinois, several different pump stations in between that.

I didn't want to move to Smithville. We didn't have any electricity, the roads weren't blacktopped in that country. We learned to love those people, and we like that part of the country, and we hated to leave down there, we almost cried. Moved from there to Maysville, Oklahoma, lived there 18 years.

CASEY COPLEN: So how old were you when you joined the service?

STANLEY WILSON: I was about 22.

CASEY COPLEN: In the summertime, did you have to go and work in the cotton, or what did you do when school was out through the year?

STANLEY WILSON: We lived on a farm, out there was growing cotton (and) corn. We mostly fed our livestock cane. We'd grow big patches of the cane and cut it and put it in big mangers and livestock would come up around it, mostly horses and mules that we worked in the fields, we drove teams in the field at that time. Always plenty to do. When I first went to work for Oklahoma Natural they paid me 56 cents an hour for digging a ditch from Kinta to Whitefield. When I retired from Oxidental Oil City Service, sold to O(?) just before I retired, it would have been on a 20 day a month, 8 hour day wage rate would have been $26 an hour, that the difference for fractionation, that is the difference in the wages from the time I went to work to when I retired.

CASEY COPLEN: Did they have any hamburger shops or movies or things like that to go to or was that before or later on?

STANLEY WILSON: In high school we had a conference winning team. In 1936 we were in the Choctaw conference, and I made Choctaw conference center. Pepper Martin was our fullback, Mark London was Quarterback. We had several of these old timers that died out on our football team. Preston Slater, right guard, L. D. Cook was our left end, Jack Martindale was right end, and Guy Parks played right half. Worked for the highway patrol for McAlester through the years, he has retired now and lived in McAlester. We had a bunch of ole corn fed country boys, but we beat Poteau, Panama, Hartshorne, Haleyville, and all these schools that were in our classification. Had Tom Banes for a coach and he was a good one, he did a lot for this school.

I guess Tom Banes was one that convinced me that I didn't need to smoke. One time I bought me some cigars; I'd been hauling lumber to Clayton, Oklahoma. That's when I was working in the timber and came back to Wilburton and I had a cigar in my mouth and run into Tom over there. He told me how stupid I was for smoking. He said, "Anybody that's in as good physical shape as you are in, shouldn't smoke that tobacco. You're crazy."

If it would have been anybody else besides Tom Banes tell me that, it would have made me mad; but I knew he was telling me right. So whenever I got to town down there, Joe Ab Young was in town, and I gave him the rest of those cigars, and never did buy no more tobacco in my life. I just thought it was a little cool, you know, to smoke a cigar; but I never did smoke a cigarette and I didn't smoke any more cigars.

CASEY COPLEN: So you were in Hawaii? Was that right?

STANLEY WILSON: Well, we went to Hawaii to deliver some stuff, torpedo heads and stuff. You know, that was for them torpedoes they were, you might say, a detonator for them, and when they shot them into a ship, that detonator would explode and cause that torpedo to explode.

We had what you call a depth charger on the ship, and when we would think there was a sub under us somewhere down there, it would go to the back end of the ship, and roll them depth charges off. They go so deep, and then the water pressure would set them off, and they would explode then. Sometimes you'd see an oily spot where a sub had been blowed up, and sometimes you didn't see anything.

But the ole Shenandoah had a 16 ft. screw that drove the ship and whenever the ship was under way, when it was traveling and wasn't under fire, I was on the wheel 4 hours on and then I'd be off. All except, well I'd be in the shop the rest of the time, but I'd be on that, you'd call it the steering, there's a gyro compass right in front of you and the officers of the deck, he stayed up in the captain's quarters and he'd give the location and you'd take it right off that gyro compass and you'd steer the ship according to the commands that you had gotten from the navigation officer, you know, and you didn't do anything on your own. That gyro compass, and followed orders, and that was the first job.

LORENE WILSON: (His wife) Weren't you there after they bombed Pearl Harbor?

STANLEY WILSON: Yeah. No, for quite a while after they bombed Pearl Harbor. But we're down there after that, but I'm real proud of the fact that I got to steer a ship that size, because I didn't have any navigation schooling or any of that. But you didn't have to if you could read a gyro compass.

Well, we used the Morse code with a blinker system, from one ship to another one ship. Would line up, maybe give us; they'd give us their recognition, and you would accept it by the blinking of dots and dashes, that's how the Morse code was used. Then, now you've got radar and telephones. We had a captain, our captain was from Stillwater, Oklahoma, and after he found out I was an Okie, I got to talk to him several times, and that was never done. Oh, you felt good if a captain would come around and visit with you about, just, maybe, location, or something like that, not a reprimand of any kind. I retired with a good conduct medal and a good honorable discharge, and I have a medal for bravery.

I had a son-in-law that carried the medals off. He wasn't in the service. It was Mary's husband.

CASEY COPLEN: Her first husband.

STANLEY WILSON: He'd put them things on, and you know he wanted somebody to think he had been in the service. He was just impersonating.

CASEY COPLEN: How much has the town changed, since then?

STANLEY WILSON: Well, there was a cotton and a grain elevator that bought corn down here, and the Fort Smith Western Railroad came out of the Fort Smith, and went to, and I believe it tied into another rail system up about the Shawnee, Oklahoma area. They had a depot and 2 men worked on this section line through here and they worked all up and down this valley. People grew a little bit of cotton. That was their money crop, and the surplus corn that they had they could sell it to the elevators down here. We'd gather corn down in San Bois bottom and haul it by wagon and unload it for 15 cents a bushel.

That was during the depression days, and cotton was the money crop. People bought their clothes, sugar, coffee, and their necessities with cotton money, that would sell up and down in this area because labor was so cheap. And I remember I worked a little bit for John Williams, he lived down below us. I was a teenager, and I worked from about sun to sun for a dollar a day. If you were driving the team, he wanted that team to be moving. If you were plowing, and if you were digging post holes, he'd come along behind you, and he had a stick gauge 16 inches with a round cut around it, and if those post holes wasn't 16 inches deep, he'd want you to go back and lower them a little bit and he'd pay you a penny apiece for the post holes. A hundred post holes a day, you know.

But there's been a lot of changes since the 1930s, you know, that was about the low ebb of wages in the US at that time.

CASEY COPLEN: So, were you here when the depression was?

STANLEY WILSON: I grew up, yes, we grew up in the depression. The worst part of it hit in about 1929 and it lasted till about 1935 or 1937, like that you know. And this country didn't show much improvement until about 1941 or 1942. After the war started. And then there was a good many jobs all over the country. And people that didn't go into the service, they had the ability to find work because there were several defense jobs opened up.

You know, like a lot of people went to California and worked in the shop yards and different places like that. But (I) had been working for the oil company, why I came back here after the service. I'm very happy that I did because I got to live within a few hundred miles of this area, you know, my life. And Uncle Sam showed me all of the country that I wanted to see. Cause by the time I sailed the Pacific and the Atlantic, I had seen all of the water that I wanted to see.

And we had a Chaplain on the ship, that when we were under siege or in troubled waters, he would come on the PA system and say "Lord protect us by Your might, Great God, our King," and then when things settled down after the storm was over and after we were out of a battle zone or something, he'd always come on the PA system and say, "Thank you, Lord." He was very grateful, for he was Catholic. But I'd go, because there was quite a bit of stuff that he taught that was Bible, that I felt like I needed to know.

And the two books I read while I was in the service, one was Proverbs, and the other was Ecclesiastes. That was the first two Bible books that I read. Remember, and we had a testament that we carried with us. Most of them carried one in their, our, they had a pocket up there and then you had 2 pockets up there, and then you had 2 pockets in front, but I carried a testament right up there most of the time.

CASEY COPLEN: Were your teachers real strict whenever you were in school? Cause you always see movies where the teachers were real mean and now you can't even--

STANLEY WILSON: I think I liked every teacher that I had as far as I can remember, and I sure did like B. T. Rose, and I liked Tom Bane. I liked Earl Jones, and I had an English teacher, Miss Camp. A lot of people thought she was just a demon, but if you just done your work and kept your mouth shut, Mss Camp was, you know, she was a good teacher and I could usually get exempt from English I test. Didn't like to do my English Literature work. But I'd do it to get exempt from test. Math and Algebra and Geometry was hard for me, but I realized I needed more out in the working world than I would a lot of other things, because when I went into fractionation for natural gas liquids, I realized that, that was a need subject to be able to comprehend, you know.

LORENE WILSON: We lived by ourselves while he was in the service.

STANLEY WILSON: It's a different house, but it was over there by where that little house is. It was an L-shaped house and had two rooms on the left and one room in the back.

Casey, you may not realize it now, most kids when they're growing up, they think they can never go far enough away from home, or won't be able to see enough country; but when you see the country, the thing was for you to start working back towards home and just be thankful you have a stake drove down some place you can call home. Because there's a lot of people in this world that don't have idea of where they (belong).

And I never did dwell on the bad things of the service, and I never did have a problem with going to a bar, and trying to drown my troubles, because I always felt like prayer was better than the drink to help you comprehend the problems that come before you, and there many of them do. But prayer is a lot better solution. I was baptized in the baptistery at the Baptist Church in Quinton, Oklahoma. Otway Rabon baptized me. We didn't have a baptistery down here and it was cold weather in the spring of 1943, and we went to Quinton, I was baptized up there.

CASEY COPLEN: In the creek, or up at the church in the Baptistery? Or up in the church in the baptistery, at church?

STANLEY WILSON: No, in the baptistery. Otway Rabon, he did a lot of good for this old valley. Led a lot of people to the Lord, he told the plan of salvation, and he was a good hand at it. He was a good man that lived a good life.

CASEY COPLEN: Was there any other wars, did you take part in the wars, or did you just go after they were already over?

STANLEY WILSON: We were out there defending ourselves in the Pacific. And I reckon I only got to shoot one suicide plane. I though I shot it down myself because it was coming in front of the ship, and the 12 inch guns had been firing at him. They come in just about sunrise and they'd try to come in from the east. I was on the port side of the ship. They were firing but he came in pretty close, but I had that 20 millimeter right on him and there was one man putting ammunition in on one side, and another one when that gun barrel would get red-hot, had welders gloves one, he'd take hold of that gun barrel and just had to turn it a quarter round to get it loose. He'd throw it over the side, and put me a new gun barrel on, but I'd start firing again. And see that suicide plane start smoking, and he dipped right into the sea just as he got to us, but those are the things you have to forget.

CASEY COPLEN: (Unknown question)

STANLEY WILSON: I had 3 sisters living at that time, they said, why in the world would they want to build a house in Kinta, Oklahoma? I said I wouldn't want to build one anywhere else except in Kinta. These old Sans Bois Mountains back here has been a good outlet for us if we get a little bit tired of staying in the house, why we just take a vehicle and run those lease roads back in the mountains. I enjoy it. I used to like to hunt there, turkey. And we had, Ross Wilson and I, bought some Russian hogs, those wild hogs and put back in the mountains a few years ago. And up until I got just going, I enjoyed hunting hogs, too.

CASEY COPLEN: So you like to hunt. Did you ever kill any big deer or go to any other state to hunt any moose, or anything like that?

STANLEY WILSON: I didn't go to any other state to hunt. I killed a 12 point, 168 pound buck back here on Hog Ranch Mountain, here in Oklahoma. That was in the 1960s, I guess about 1964 or 1965. But I have killed several small deer since then. He was the biggest deer I ever got, but I did like to hunt. Turkeys are a very smart bird. I've had a many as 3 or 4 a gobbling to me, and not even a one, and if you ever wave you hand to scare off a mosquito or fly or anything, those turkeys will see you. Because they can see, that's for sure. That's the way they stay alive, is being able to see the predator. I took a 20 pound tom to Stigler, let's see, that was about 1984 or 1985, and I always did like to hunt. But a lot of people can't see it, but if you are raised up to eat all you kill, and not waste it, I couldn't see nothing wrong with it.

We, when we lived in the Smithville area, we had some friends down there that hunted pretty well year round. We'd go off from home and never lock the (door). We'd come home a lot of the time and there'd be a deer ham on the table, and no nothing, but we'd have a pretty good idea who it was. And people was, if you treated those people right, and didn't meddle with their business, if anybody should say anything to the game ranger, then they was in trouble. Because there was a old boy in Tulsa, that had been down there, and he didn't like it if anybody killed a deer out of season, and he reported people, and those natures got to shooting through his roof, his house, they gave him a message. He'd be out of there.

I had some Indian friends down (there), and they could hardly speak English. They' say "Good my friend Wilson"; they'd talk backwards, "Good my friend Wilson," "good my friend long time" and I'd say "Yeah, good my fiend long time." But if you didn't meddle with their business, was just friendly with them it was okay.

CASEY COPLEN: So did you ride in a wagon when you were younger, or when did you get your first car, and things like that?

STANLEY WILSON: We traveled by wagon or horseback whenever it was about 1938, and I guess 1939 I got that old Dodge pickup. That was the first vehicle we owned, and about all the travel we done was either in the wagon, or riding a horse.

CASEY COPLEN: Did you enjoy riding a horse?

STANLEY WILSON: Oh, I enjoyed riding horses, through the years. I've played with running horses.

LORENE WILSON: Those years we live at...

STANLEY WILSON: ...Maysville and Blackwell. I was running some horses, we used to run horses in Stroud, Oklahoma, Weatherford, Texas, and Lubbock, Texas, and different places. And run some in Sallisaw after we went to Blackwell.

LORENE WILSON: He would work all week and run his horses on weekends.

STANLEY WILSON: It was a hobby and I really liked it. A lot of people like to fish and I wasn't much of a fisherman. I'd just maybe rig up once a year, go fishing a little, but about one trip a year would do me on the fishing. But I liked them horses well enough, I'd work at that. I used to rather ride a good horse than drive a pink Cadillac. Of course, I never owned a Cadillac, but that's the way I felt about it.

LORENE WILSON: Before we got married, we did more courting than work.

STANLEY WILSON: I'll tell you when automation first started it like to have scared me to death, because I could see so many changes that was coming, and electronics started. But the company they would go take the schooling as change came along, you could make it that way because everything that's new scares us, when it's pertaining to anything like your job. But the major companies, they were good about schooling people on automation, because we seen lots of change and lots of things in the way that companies operated in those 50 or 60 years, you know.

CASEY COPLEN: So you think that all the technology is a good thing, the computer and Internet and things like that?

STANLEY WILSON: I think it's a good thing. I just was able to comprehend a computer, I've never had any comprehension, and never taken any computer lessons, and I guess it has been around.

John would take a computer program when he was in school, and now his job, he works for Occidental Oil, the outfit I retired from, and One Oaks bought them out now, but he's in the gas field. Where I was, nearly everything has to go on the computer daily. Where I was lucky, I make $40,000 a year, he's making $50,000 now and that's real good.

I think technology is in much progress right now as it was 50 years ago. You don't realize it whenever you're retired like I am, but can see from what I read and hear on the television that technology is moving just about as fast as it's ever been right now. I don't think a person can get too much schooling, because the more schooling you get the better prepared you are to go out into the world.

Now my schooling on diesel and refrigeration in the Navy helped me in fractionation whenever I went in processing plants for natural gas liquids. Lots of things helped me that I learned in refrigeration and diesel, internal combustion, and engines, and in the process of heating and cooling. In the plant that I was working in, they heated the product, but steamed and then controlled the product pressures. When you broke it down into the product that you were trying to make, it had to leave there in about 97.9% purity, before it could go into sales. And we controlled with air, and heated with steam, and there was a whole lot to learn about.

CASEY COPLEN: So, you have been retired for, how long did you say?

STANLEY WILSON: I've been retired for going on 22 years and thank the Lord for every day of it. Since 1980, because it's been a good 22 years. And used to 22 years seemed like a long time to me, now I can look back over 20 years, and it seems like it hasn't been long. I can remember when C. B. (Casey's dad) used to bring you down at the old church and put you on my lap, and you'd put your arm up and want me to draw a watch and a bracelet and rings on your fingers. And your mother would say, "Stanley Wilson, don't you mark all over that kid, that's hard to get off." But you'd want me to make that watch.

CASEY COPLEN: I remember it.

STANLEY WILSON: But you were about the only baby in church there for several years, and you had to be a baby for everybody. So we were all kind of like old Drew (the pastor's son) is now. He's the little one we all...

CASEY COPLEN: I remember you used to do a trick with your thumb, and I thought you were pulling your thumb off.

STANLEY WILSON: And we'd do that scissor thing I haven't done that in so long, that it don't work anymore.

CASEY COPLEN: So what do you think about the terrorist attacks in New York City and the Pentagon?

STANLEY WILSON: I think it's very hard to fight what you can't see, and the terrorists, they don't make themselves visible. That was one of the most devastating things . Our people couldn't even imagine the way those people think. They don't place no value whatsoever on life, and you can't make a treaty with people that don't care anymore about their life than those people do there. Out of Afghanistan, for one man to have the authority Bin Laden had had, it is very unreal to try think of, you know?

CASEY COPLEN: Kind of scary to know something like that could happen.

LORENE WILSON: The men that died think that killing people over here will make them go straight to Heaven. You know they didn't.

STANLEY WILSON: No, we see them as murderers, and they see themselves as martyrs, and that's different. Nobody knows where it will (end), and if Arafat can more control of his people, they might be closer to some peace treaty right now than they've been. But I doubt if things are so bad out of control over there now. I doubt if Arafat can handle his people, the Palestinians, and I'm sure that the Jewish people, they should be willing to come up with some concrete agreement, and live by it. But I don't think that those people that they're dealing with will be able to be stable enough to have an agreement with them. No one knows how long this terrorist thing will last.

We thought the suicide bombers from Japan were bad, just had more dedication than we did, but after the war they go to telling they would load those pilots up with 18-20, 20 milligram amphetamine tablets whenever they would put them in a plane and send them out to hit a ship, and they was doing it under the influence of medication.

(End of tape.)

(This concludes the interview of Stanley Wilson, by Casey B. Coplen.)